To further illustrate, this first picture shows a very similar mailbox offered on http://www.home-improvement-superstore.com.
This second picture shows the actual mailbox with manila envelopes the same size as the mail that was put out by Susan Medina on the 24th. Susan's outgoing mail consisted of blank forms, thus no need for privacy. The incoming mail, however, would be the completed forms and other sensitive mail for her work. Thus the need for the incoming mail to be under lock and key. When you open the flap, there is a slot that the mailman drops the incoming mail through, to fall into the bottom locked box. Graybill said he had to first remove the outgoing mail, and then deposit the incoming mail. As stated on the Facebook page, Todd would have seen the outgoing mail sticking out, not the incoming mail.
This next picture shows the actual location of the Medina mailbox on December 24, 2002. The privacy wall was built after the burglary/Laci's disappearance, and the mailbox moved to the side of the privacy wall.
19 comments:
Wearing A Halo said...
It is more likely that Todd saw the outgoing mail at the Medina's mailbox between 9:30 and 10:00 a.m. on 12/24/02 as he was passing by on Covena riding his bike.
Glad to see you admit he was on Covena on the 24th. But I have four questions for you.
1) Where does it say that the Medinas put out the outgoing mail that early to be seen between 9:30 and 10:00.
2) Where does it say that Todd was riding his bike on Covena between 9:30 and 10:00 on 12/24/02. I'm not at all questioning that he was on Covena, but where does it say it was between 9:30 and 10:00?
3. Why would he say that he knew they weren't home because of the mail he saw sticking out of the mailbox? Obviously, they were still home.
4. How could the mail he saw sticking out on the 24th tell him in the early morning hours on the 26th that the Medinas weren't home? I don't follow that reasoning.
TIA
Wearing A Halo said...
1) Where does it say that the Medinas put out the outgoing mail that early to be seen between 9:30 and 10:00.
Through testimony, After the inspector left the Medina's home, they had a one hour window--9:30-10:30 a.m. to get ready to go South. It was Susan Medina who was the one to put the outgoing mail and not Rudy Medina. Rudy Medina was just checking the mail to see if the outgoing mail was still there or had been picked up before 10:32 a.m. I think that it was in the time frame of 9:30-10:00 a.m. that Susan Medina put the outgoing mail in the mailbox and it was in this time frame of 9:30-10:00 a.m. that Todd road his bike on Covena and saw the outgoing mail in the Medina's mailbox. The postman, Mr. Greybill, came through Covena in the time frame of 10:35-10:50 a.m.; it was in this time frame that he picked up the outgoing mail from the Medina's and left three letters inside the mailbox, although he has no recollection of picking up any outgoing mail from the Medina's mailbox--it is most likely because it was routine.
2) Where does it say that Todd was riding his bike on Covena between 9:30 and 10:00 on 12/24/02. I'm not at all questioning that he was on Covena, but where does it say it was between 9:30 and 10:00?
Through testimony from defense witness Officer Hicks, he states that Todd said he rode his bike on Covena and sees the mail at the (Medina's) mailbox. Todd mostly rode his bike on Covena in that time frame and more than likely has seen the mail at the Medina's more than once in the same time frame. Mr. Greybill had his schedule of delivery in the same time frame for the most part. For Todd to see the (outgoing) mail on any day, it would have to be in this time from and on 12/24/02 the time frame is 9:30-10:00 a.m.
3. Why would he say that he knew they weren't home because of the mail he saw sticking out of the mailbox? Obviously, they were still home.
This is a question you will have to ask Todd. Officer Hicks states that Todd said he saw mail--not outgoing mail. I think that Todd was interested in the mail itself and figured there was something about that house and he made the Medina's house a target. Todd was not all that sure if anyone was at the house; he said he made noise so that is when he broke in. What is obvious, is that by the time Todd chose to break in; the Medina's had left their home on Covena at 10:30-33 a.m. on 12/24/02 and the mail was picked up and delivered on Covena between 10:35-10:50 a.m. on 12/24/02.
4. How could the mail he saw sticking out on the 24th tell him in the early morning hours on the 26th that the Medinas weren't home? I don't follow that reasoning.
This question is similar to question #3. So, it would be the same answer.
What is even more obvious is that Todd is not placed on Covena at 10:35-10:50 as what is being misreported on Facebook.
Thanks for the creative writing, WAH, but where does Todd say that's the time he usually rode down Covena, on the 24th or any other day?
And where does it say that's the time Susan Medina put out the mail?
I know you want desperately to disassociate Todd from Laci, but creative writing doesn't do the job -- please cite some source that states Todd would have been on Covena on the 24th between 9:30 and 10:00.
One thing we do definitely agree on, Todd did choose to break into the Medinas after they left their home on Covena at 10:30-33 am on 12/24/02 and after the mailman did his delivery by 10:50 am. On the 24th.
The burlary was in progress when Jackson saw the 3 men and the van and the safe being removed from the house. She saw the 3 men near the van, but someone had to be removing the safe from the house, as safe's aren't self-moving. So logically it was Todd rolling the safe out.
They obviously left in a hurry, because they left valuables out in plain sight. And obviously none of them thought it safe to go back and finish the burglary.
I'd love to ask Todd a lot of questions. Maybe you could arrange an interview.
Wearing A Halo said...
It is not me who "wants desperately to disassociate Todd from Laci.", I am not desperate for anything in regards to this case, in fact, it is you who wants desperately to associate Todd to Laci and you, MAN, have not been able to (tsk, tsk).
Here is a link to sources: www.pwc-sii.com -click on the link thats is CASE FILE, then click on the link that is TRANSCRIPTS, scroll down to Medina (Susan), and also Hicks (Michael). Click and read the testimony and do try to understand in context what they testified to.
Other testimony worth reading;
Greybill
Krigbaum
Westphal
Servas
They all outline a timeline for the time frame.
I am sure you would "love to ask Todd a lot of questions", questions that you, MAN, cannot figure out. It is funny, though, that you believe that I can arrange an interview for you and Todd, as far as I know, Todd would be in the same place he has been for the past 5-6 years. You want an interview with Todd, I am sure you know where to find him.
As for DJ, she never described the safe,never saw the dolly, never described Todd nor Pearce, never saw Laci, Never saw Mackenzie. All she can say is what she saw at 11:40 a.m. on Covena on 12/24/02 and the best is that she saw a burglary by--three dark skinned males (not African American) short in stature--and DJ did not see an abduction of anyone.
Now, MAN, since you love to talk about "creative writing not doing the job", you should (and must) read the editorials on PWC-SII, there are plenty of "creative writings" for you to read there. Also, Facebook has some "creative writing" going on there too, and CB has some "creative writing" as well on her blog, but then again they get their BS info from the PWC editorials--Go Figure!!!
ah yes, WAH, when you are asked to document your claims, you go right back to your vitriolic attack on me.
Truth is, no one said Todd was on Covena between 9:30 and 10:00, and no one said Susan Medina put out her mail between 9:30 and 10:00. It's just your theory to explain how Todd could have seen the outgoing mail and yet not have confronted Laci.
But it doesn't wash, WAH, because I do have documentation about the safe being removed from the house from Detective Grogan offered, per the Judge's instructions, for the truth of the matter.
JUDGE: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I have to sort of, in order to put all this evidence we've been receiving the last couple days back into context. A lot of this information that the, Detective Grogan got on the tip line is not being offered for the truth, okay? It's being offered to explain the reasonableness of Detective Grogan's conduct; what did he do as a result of this information that he received, okay? With respect to the testimony, and it's going to come in now as it relates to Ms. Jackson, that is being offered for the truth, okay? A little different from the other, other stuff. You can give this evidence whatever weight you think it's entitled to. That's for you to decide. Whatever you want, but it's being offered for the truth; all right? That's the distinction between this tip line stuff, this is also tip line stuff, but this is a little different, okay? All right. Hope that explains it. Go ahead.
GERAGOS: Okay. And specifically it's a sheet that was phoned in at, looks like 4:10, looks like from Sergeant Ed Steele; is that right?
GROGAN: Yes.
GERAGOS: And who is he?
GROGAN: He's a sergeant with the Modesto Police Department. He was assigned to go –
JUDGE: Detective Grogan, you're talking away from the microphone. I'm not sure they can hear you.
GROGAN: Assigned to go to the volunteer center after it was opened at the hotel.
GERAGOS: Okay. And he talked to Diane Jackson, who, the woman that we had pointed out, lived on this Edgebrook Street in that La Loma neighborhood; is that correct?
GROGAN: I'm not sure if he talked to her directly when, when she called in, or if he received that information and then just passed it on.
GERAGOS: Okay. And then he said that, what was on the call sheet was that she witnessed a burglary on Covena, correct? 459 is a Penal Code Section for burglary?
GROGAN: Yes.
GERAGOS: On 12/24 at 11:40 a.m.?
GROGAN: That's what it says.
GERAGOS: Okay. And she said she saw the van and the safe being removed from the house, correct?
GROGAN: That's what it says.
Since we know from the testimony of officers that investigated the Medina burglary, that the safe was in Todd's possession and he and Pearce admitted stealing it from the Medinas, then the time he stole it is at the time Jackson saw the safe being removed from the house. Which makes both Pearce and Todd liars. They couldn't avoid having to admit they stole the safe from the Medina home, but they must have had the same creative writing instructor that you had in Junior High because they sure came up with some wild stories to explain when and how.
Perhaps you have another creative explanation for how Todd ended up with the safe and why he and Pearce were willing to admit they stole it from the Medina home.
Wearing A Halo said...
1) Where does it say that the Medinas put out the outgoing mail that early to be seen between 9:30 and 10:00.
Through testimony, After the inspector left the Medina's home, they had a one hour window--9:30-10:30 a.m. to get ready to go South. It was Susan Medina who was the one to put the outgoing mail and not Rudy Medina. Rudy Medina was just checking the mail to see if the outgoing mail was still there or had been picked up before 10:32 a.m. I think that it was in the time frame of 9:30-10:00 a.m. that Susan Medina put the outgoing mail in the mailbox and it was in this time frame of 9:30-10:00 a.m. that Todd road his bike on Covena and saw the outgoing mail in the Medina's mailbox. The postman, Mr. Greybill, came through Covena in the time frame of 10:35-10:50 a.m.; it was in this time frame that he picked up the outgoing mail from the Medina's and left three letters inside the mailbox, although he has no recollection of picking up any outgoing mail from the Medina's mailbox--it is most likely because it was routine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WAH – so how do you explain the fact that Todd said the other factor in determining no one was home at the Medina house was that there was only one car in the driveway?
It’s interesting that you admit that Todd lied about when he saw the mail in the Medina’s mailbox. It’s also interesting that you leave out the possibility of 10:00 – 10:30 for Todd having seen the mail in the Medina’s mailbox…and I suspect you disregard this time frame because you don’t want to have to admit that Todd could have been on Covena after Scott left and before Karen Servas found McKenzie in the street. I suspect another reason you intentionally disregard this time frame is because you don’t want to give any credibility to the Aponte tip….placing Todd on Covena at a time when he could have been confronted by Laci leaving for her walk.
Does it really make sense to you that Todd would use the mail in the mailbox (obviously thinking it was an accumulation of incoming mail) on the 24th to determine they were not home – then return on the night of the 25th and still burglarize the home – even though the mail was no longer there? No….the only thing that makes sense is that Todd was on Covena 12/24 between 9:30 and 10:30 and witnessed Rudy Medina packing up the car for their trip. And perhaps he also saw Scott loading the umbrellas into the back of the truck and saw him pull off……leaving only one car in the driveway and decided to hit the Peterson home first.
You acknowledge that the events could not have happened the way the MPD said they did, yet you have 100 percent satisfaction in the MPD investigation of the Medina burglary. You acknowledge that facts presented by the prosecution simply are not possible and are willing to disregard those facts as long as it doesn’t point to Scott’s innocence – yet you refuse to acknowledge the true facts that clearly exonerate Scott. You really don’t see your tunnelvision – do you WAH?
Wearing A Halo said...
Anon, you have no idea to what I acknowledge to in this case.
What I admit to is that Todd is not placed on Covena at 10:35-10:50 as what is premised on Facebook.
SLP is leaving at about 10:00 a.m. and does not see anyone, not even anyone on a bike on Covena, Karen Servas is outside her home at about 10:15 and sees Mackenzie and she does not see anyone on a bike. She does, however, see a man walking down from the park side of Covena--though this is not unusual. Now, could this man be Todd without his bike? If this is Todd, then he very well could have seen the Medina's mail as he walked as well. What is very interesting is that Mr. MG never brought up this man to KS on cross--he could have shown her pictures of both Todd and Pearce and check if any of them is the man she saw walking,--could be he did on depo and she said no--but MG did not even bother in trial, so it very well could be that this man was not Todd. The Medinas leave about 10:30-33 a.m. and they do not see anyone riding a bike, nor walking, down Covena.
What is known through testimony is that there are no neighbors to witness anyone between 9:30-10:00, even Susan Medina who puts her outgoing mails in the mailbox still did not see anyone at that time.
Now you, Anon, can choose to believe that Todd lied about him seeing the mail, but what is true is that the Medinas had outgoing mail sticking out of their mailbox. So, Todd either saw the mail on 12/24/02 between 9:30-10:00 a.m. (or perhaps 10:00-30 a.m. if he is the one KS saw walking--I think this man is not Todd), but, IMO, Todd did not see the outgoing mail at the 10:35-50 as what Facebook wants you to believe.
As for Lt. Xavier Aponte, I disregard his tip because Lt. Xavier Aponte has no credibility--it is so funny that you, Anon, and other NGs love to hang on to Lt. Xavier Aponte when he cannot get his stuff straight and together.
Anon, it is not me that has "tunnelvision", in fact, I explore every possibility that is put forth, but it has to make sense, be logical and above all be in context to the facts. What I do acknowledge is the fact that it is so very possible, sensible, logical, contextual to the facts that SLP did commit the murders of Laci and Conner. I am totally convinced that SLP is GBARD. All I ask is for the NGs to at least acknowledge the POSSIBILITY that SLP committed the murders of Laci and Conner.
HTH
WAH it’s possible that Todd saw the letters in the mailbox sometime between 9:30 and 10:30, as it isn’t clear from Susan Medina’s testimony exactly when she put the letters in the box. However, if Todd saw the letters in the box before 10:30 a.m. on the 24th, the Medinas had not yet left home. What he would have seen at that time was the Medinas going in and out of the house, packing the car, and getting ready for their trip.
It seems that if he actually was worried about not having presents for his children, he would have done something about it before Christmas day, not afterward.
And if he saw the Medinas getting ready to leave for a trip, it seems likely that he would have done the burglary shortly after they left, because he would have no way of knowing when they would return.
Wearing A Halo said...
Well Jane, that would be a "big if" if he saw the Medinas loading their car, because they were loading their car from behind a gate, inside of their backyard side pad. Todd would have to peak over the gate to see them packing. We know that once the Medinas get passed their gate into the frontyard side of their driveway, they lock the gate, then Susan gets her husband Rudy to check on the mails before they leave their driveway at 10:30-33 a.m.
Also, what is known is that both KS and the Medinas do not see each other and they live across the street from each other, so this means that the Medinas were indeed packing from inside the gate not to be seen from anyone. The Medinas did not see KS and Mackenzie either because they were indeed inside their gate.
Now, about Todd doing the burglary shortly after the Medinas leave at 10:30-33 a.m., he would have to do it at 10:34 a.m., because the postman Greybill is on Covena at 10:35-50 a.m. and sees nothing at the Medinas. Also, Aimee Krigbaum is up by and outside her front door at 10:33-38 a.m. and she sees nothing. Also again, Westphal is walking down Covena at 10:50 a.m. and she sees nothing.
It is not until 11:40 a.m.--1 hour and 10 minutes, which is not shortly from 10:30 a.m. that someone (DJ) sees three darked skinned men (not African American)--short of stature (and a safe, if you want to believe that). However, what she does not see is Laci, Mackenzie, nor Todd--she does not see an abduction!
Jane, 1 hour and 10 minutes is a long time for anyone to commit a burglary when they do not know what time the home owners would return.
Another thing, Jane, DJ describes "the burglars" as staring at her, well then, she is a witness to their wrong doing and I would think that they would be after her, yet, nothing ever happened to Diane Jackson--after all she sees them "removing a safe" and they see her driving by at the same time. Burglars wanting to get rid of a witness would get rid of DJ, not someone who was already taken by her husband.
At 11:45-12 noon, KS returns home and about this same time frame, Aimee Krigbaum is getting ready to leave.
One obvious possibility that you forgot to mention, WAH, and that is that Todd, hanging around the neighborhood, greedy for some home to burglarize while its occupants are gone for the holidays, sees the mail in the Medinas mailbox, sees them pull out of their side yard from behind the gate, sees Rudy check the mail, and sees them leave.
So what does Todd do next? The smart thing to do would be to go round up some help in case this proved to be a bonanza (and seeing the makes of the cars in the drive and seeing the condition of the home compared to its neighbors, as it obviously was the best kept property on that street probably thought it would be a well-paid burglary) he did the logical thing and rode off on his bike to get some help.
He may even have hung around long enough to let the mailman finish his route -- I'm sure Todd wouldn't want to be disturbed by the mailman.
So off he goes to find help, and comes back with a van and 3 men.
True, Jackson said they did stare at her, and true they did not run her down to kill her on the spot, but then, a person driving by isn't quite the same threat as someone standing right there catching you in the burglary.
And, they did conclude the burglary quite hastily, as evidenced by the number of valuables right out in the open. Something spooked them and made them leave in a hurry.
Let me guess what that something was. They had Laci gagged and bound in the back of the van and didn't want to risk Jackson calling the cops on them and the cops coming and finding Laci.
Or do you think they just said, Hey, guys, we've got enough, let's just leave all that jewelry and other valuables alone -- we don't want to be greedy.
Nope, they got out of there like a bat out of hell -- can't blame them, I wouldn't want to be caught with all that loot AND a pregnant woman bound and gagged. That wouldn't look good on their resume.
Wearing A Halo said...
Wow, talk about creative writing MAN, talk about creative writing.
While you write up is quite possible, it is not at all plausible.
Your made up scenario MAN, is not supported by any facts.
MAN, give me a time line.
MAN, give me some facts.
HTH
My dear WAH, you demand a timeline for the burlgary -- where is the timeline for Scott murdering Laci? We can't tell you when he did it, we can't tell you where he did it, we can't tell you how he did it, but we know he did it. The State's case has so many holes it's pathetic, and here you are demanding an exact timeline for the burglary. Pretty pathetic!
But I'll give you FACTS, plenty of FACTS -- and they back up my theory, not yours.
1. Todd LIED about seeing the mail on Christmas Day.
2. Todd could ONLY have seen the mail on December 24 sometime before the mailman picked it up at approximately 10:50.
3. Todd LIED about being with his kids at their house on Christmas Day. In case you haven't read the most recent post on this blog, I suggest you do so before you waste your time spitting more nonsense in comments to this post.
4. Todd did in fact participate in the burglary, as he was caught with the goods.
5. Laci did in fact confront Todd and others committing the burglary and was threatened by Todd.
6. Jackson did in fact see a van, 3 men, and a safe being removed from the house.
7. The anonymous tipster for the burglary did in fact express concern about Laci Peterson.
8. Todd did in fact refer to Laci -- the first words out of his mouth.
9. Hicks did in fact fail to follow up on why Todd talked about Laci and failed to verify any of Todd's "alleged" whereabouts on Dec 24 and 25.
Therefore, all of the above being true and correct FACTS, Todd and others did commit the burglary on Dec 24 and did in fact abduct Laci Peterson, and are in fact responsible for her demise.
Now, you've been given your opportunity to come up with a reasonable explanation backed by documentation. You came up with a flimsy theory.
But, in that theory you did admit that Todd was on Covena on the 24th, which, I guess is some progress.
But no more of your nonsensical railings. You've had your chance.
Here is the thing. Todd said he broke into the Medina's home on Dec. 26th. So, question is, how did he know they weren't home? Yes, there would have been A car in the driveway, BUT, there would have been NO OUTGOING mail sticking out BECAUSE it had been picked up on the 24th and there is no mail delivery or pick on Dec. 25th. Had he been there on the 26th, there would have been no outgoing mail sticking out, therefore, with a car in the driveway and the mail gone, on Dec. 26th, he would have had to assume someone was home, therefore the burglary did NOT occur on Dec. 26. So, if the Medina's left their home at 10:30 on the morning of Dec. 24 and if Todd and Pearce watched them leave and broke into the home shortly after, say between 10:35 and 10:40 and that was when Lacy saw them and walked over to confront them. Only a guilty person who had something to do with Lacy's disappearance would have voluntarily blurt out that he had nothing to do with the lady and her baby. And why would he say the lady and her baby? Why didn't he say "the missing pregnant lady"?
5. "Laci did in fact confront Todd and others committing the burglary and was threatened by Todd."
How is this a fact?
I accept it as fact because I believe Lt. Aponte said what he heard, and had no reason on earth or in heaven to lie about it. Furthermore, Adam Tenbrink had no reason to believe he was being overheard when he told Shawn that Todd and Laci had a confrontation and Todd threatened Laci. Interestingly, after the yet to be identified MPD officer went to question Shawn, or telephone him, whichever, Shawn called Adam and told him to keep his mouth shut, that he didn't know who he was dealing with. Further confirmation that Todd did indeed threaten Laci, and that someone with some power over the Tenbrinks didn't want that information known.
DJ witnesses a burglary and does not call the police??????????
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